Comments on: A Few Thoughts on John 11:1-16 http://catchingmeddlers.com/2008/03/03/a-few-thoughts-on-john-111-16/ The Words & Thoughts of a United Methodist Pastor Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:39:44 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Matt http://catchingmeddlers.com/2008/03/03/a-few-thoughts-on-john-111-16/#comment-3191 Matt Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:32 +0000 http://catchingmeddlers.wordpress.com/?p=463#comment-3191 Now, you know I'm not that kind of doctoral student. I can barely spell exegesis, let alone do it! Anyway, I know where you went to seminary, so I'll let you get away with knowing the literary intent of the author of John. haha Now, you know I’m not that kind of doctoral student. I can barely spell exegesis, let alone do it! Anyway, I know where you went to seminary, so I’ll let you get away with knowing the literary intent of the author of John. haha

]]> By: rds http://catchingmeddlers.com/2008/03/03/a-few-thoughts-on-john-111-16/#comment-3190 rds Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:15:09 +0000 http://catchingmeddlers.wordpress.com/?p=463#comment-3190 Our boy Tom shows up at some interesting junctures in John...here in 11 of course, in 14 as you have mentioned, and as the infamous "doubter" in chapter 20. I am interested in your generous reading of Thomas' state of mind in the later account. I guess I have always read a certain aggressive belligerence into the "...I will not believe" of 20:25. I imagine that this is what is shading my overall interpretation and the understanding that he was still wanting the whole scene to conform to his own expectations. Now, as the doctoral student I expect you to be able to go all Schleiermacher on me and get inside of Thomas' psyche so I can know him better than he knew himself... ;-)) Our boy Tom shows up at some interesting junctures in John…here in 11 of course, in 14 as you have mentioned, and as the infamous “doubter” in chapter 20.

I am interested in your generous reading of Thomas’ state of mind in the later account. I guess I have always read a certain aggressive belligerence into the “…I will not believe” of 20:25.

I imagine that this is what is shading my overall interpretation and the understanding that he was still wanting the whole scene to conform to his own expectations.

Now, as the doctoral student I expect you to be able to go all Schleiermacher on me and get inside of Thomas’ psyche so I can know him better than he knew himself… ;-) )

]]> By: Matt http://catchingmeddlers.com/2008/03/03/a-few-thoughts-on-john-111-16/#comment-3189 Matt Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:29:05 +0000 http://catchingmeddlers.wordpress.com/?p=463#comment-3189 Well in an ironic way he did see where they were headed! I just get this resigned sort of vibe from Thomas - sort of like Peter's "where else would we go" from 6:68. So, I guess you might be right in linking them. But in my little exploration here, Thomas really doesn't know where he's headed. If he's thinking violent conflict, then he's wrong. If he's thinking immediate martyrdom, then he's wrong. It's about doggedly and determinedly following, holding loosely to expectations, no matter what. So, I guess I don't see too much conflict with our readings even if I have Thomas as sort of a resigned loser instead of your zealot. Whaddaya think? Well in an ironic way he did see where they were headed! I just get this resigned sort of vibe from Thomas – sort of like Peter’s “where else would we go” from 6:68. So, I guess you might be right in linking them.

But in my little exploration here, Thomas really doesn’t know where he’s headed. If he’s thinking violent conflict, then he’s wrong. If he’s thinking immediate martyrdom, then he’s wrong. It’s about doggedly and determinedly following, holding loosely to expectations, no matter what.

So, I guess I don’t see too much conflict with our readings even if I have Thomas as sort of a resigned loser instead of your zealot. Whaddaya think?

]]> By: rds http://catchingmeddlers.com/2008/03/03/a-few-thoughts-on-john-111-16/#comment-3188 rds Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:53:53 +0000 http://catchingmeddlers.wordpress.com/?p=463#comment-3188 You know, Matt... At this point in the Johanine narrative I wonder if Thomas' desire to "die with him" isn't a case of his not yet understanding where they were ultimately headed. In my mind I tend to link it to Peter's lashing out at the armed cohort in the Garden with an overgrown pocket knife. It wasn't that Peter (or Thomas) were cowards, it is more that at this point they were still attempting to dictate the terms of their discipleship. "I'm willing to go out fighting--but to be lead like a sheep to the slaughter...that is a whole different thing." What do you think? rds < You know, Matt… At this point in the Johanine narrative I wonder if Thomas’ desire to “die with him” isn’t a case of his not yet understanding where they were ultimately headed. In my mind I tend to link it to Peter’s lashing out at the armed cohort in the Garden with an overgrown pocket knife. It wasn’t that Peter (or Thomas) were cowards, it is more that at this point they were still attempting to dictate the terms of their discipleship. “I’m willing to go out fighting–but to be lead like a sheep to the slaughter…that is a whole different thing.”

What do you think?

rds
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